• Sun. Feb 28th, 2021

I feel like there's this weird interesting spectrum on the web where on one end is content and the other is app but it blends at a certain it's that blending part that I find is always interesting where I I'd hate first to be building something in a way that then search can't understand that piece right because you want to find the content that lives inside the applications and you want to still find the applications right right [Music] hello and welcome to SEO myth-busting today I have Dion Armour with me what do you work on I work in the web developer ecosystem group here at Google and so that's within chrome organization we work across chrome and search and ads and all of the different areas of Google that care about the web personally my passion is about the ecosystem hence the name so it's about looking at the health of the web and what are we doing to really help developers but even beyond developers hence the SEO world and the like to make sure that people being successful right so that could be successful in building amazing user experiences and it's also successful in actually beyond our to pay the bills and so they can keep making those amazing user experiences that is great so when I have you here today I would love to talk about SEO in the web platform going forward so we want to look into like what are the new use cases what are the things that are coming up next and what are the things that we from the search side should be preparing for let's say do you have any highlights that you want to want to talk about yeah so I gave a keynote at the chrome dev summit in November 2018 right and as its kind of going through sharing all of these great amazing web platform updates and tooling updates in the back of my mind you know you're always thinking about like are we getting closer to search and helping be causing more problems I'm actually really curious to get some of your thoughts on some of these items amazing do you have any specific things that you would like to address they're like showcases or anything that we you should look into from a search perspective yeah so one case study actually that we showed was Pinterest and it really got me thinking because you know they came along in their growth team build this new PWA that's fantastic was it's amazing like the performance is top-notch it's a great experience so they've got this great PWA that's really exciting then they've got their kind of regular desktop site they've got they're using hampered everything and so if I'm a team like that how do I like I've got all of these kind of different sides in a way which is almost like the opposite of the promise of the web it's a very I build it once anywhere so I which of these how do what's the one that I want to give to surge like how do I talk about that that's a really good question so I think generally speaking if you have the same content in multiple ways that you present them to the user find out the one that is most likely to apply to as many people as possible so if you have one specific thing for let's say like sign up users to actually we mix it or something that might not be the thing that you want to surface to search because me coming into it from outside and not having ever used it and I might not even be able to use the feature and then it's like why am I getting here so try to think of what are people typing into a search bar what is the purpose that are coming from I want to see this this image board that John has created for chrome dev summit so I might type in like image board dev summit and then I want to get the PWA probably because it loads fastest and it is available even if I'm offline and stuff like that so give me that but also link to the amp version because then we can also show the amp version next to it so it is not really a ranking signal so we might see like different rankings there depending on the purpose and the the user characteristics what they type into into the search bar but if you link them then we can make the decision for you so you don't have to worry about that kind of stuff if you then have a desktop site as well that is great as well if it's responsive that's even better if it's not responsive then give us an alternate link so that we can decide okay so this is the Google crawler that uses mobile first so we're probably going to highlight the PWA experience over the desktop site versus if someone's using the desktop site we might give them the other version rather than that but we are trying to make the right decisions for your users so that you don't have to worry about these things but strategically speaking give us a canonical that makes sense to as many people as possible so that we can surface the related information based on what people are looking for rather than any differences in the presentation gonner cool the other thing that comes up a lot is integrating our tools together instead of having it in silos right so we've already been working we are we've got lighthouse over here and page speed in science we got so drun we've got all of these different pieces yeah we announced a chrome dev summit the unification of some of these PageSpeed insights now uses lighthouse yes and the like and that's super exciting Wayfarer another company built this performance portal to kind of help the team make sure that they don't regress because I see that a large percentage of the times people were like do an investment have a quick burst or I get that performance good and then it will slowly go now so they they have this this awesome performance culture that's trying to fix that and I was just looking at that and thinking about it's yet another example like here's all the performance stuff couldn't we be surface in the kind of SEO pieces into that – how do we bridge these worlds together so both sides can kind of see the other things that are going on so lighthouse gets more SEO at audits which is great I think that probably at some point feeds into PageSpeed insights as well search console integrates some of these metrics as well because performance is also important for search and discoverability we want to like reward the content that gets you that gets the user quicker into the content rather than having to wait forever until something though it's especially on mobile networks but for external tools and external companies who want to dig into the data I think search console is a great way of already doing that in a packaged way but but we are working on ways of integrating external parties and external content providers and platforms to get the data that we are collecting already for search console so for instance if you know one of the many larger content management systems or platforms that exist out there where people are creating content we don't want them to have to specifically go into search console and now like deal with the interface they used to and then deal with something new that's why we are bringing the data into these platforms and eventually hopefully once we have gathered enough information to understand how the data is used and what data is necessary and and meaningful to external parties we will open these interfaces there will literally be an API to integrate the data from search console which gives you information as like click-through rate how many impressions you've get from search how many clicks you get from search all this kind of thing how many page of your pages are indexed actually because not all of it might be in there might be an issue you might have a markup problem right we want to surface this where people already are that can be an IDE integration that can be something like Wayfarer does yeah but at this point in time we are too early harmed to open that up to the general public but eventually that's going to happen that's so exciting and some people are talking about how like they want to understand the the unknown things like we want to where like what's if I do this that or the other how does it affect my customer lifetime value on these things and yeah and we keep running into something on the performance side where they'll do this work and they'll make something that's a lot better but their metrics actually show in the field that it's slower like what's going on like it's faster it's obviously vast our concerns and then it's because the reach that they got just totally changed there are these people on like 2g networks in emerging markets then you're comparing apples to oranges right so you got all of these new customers and so you know the mean metric isn't the thing that matters right now you've reached this new audience you get more revenue and they're like and so like how do we know like with the search side and discovery like what are the things the next things I should wish like prioritize and the like right right I think a bunch of stuff that search console gives you already is quite handy for that you see how certain content works and how certain other content might not work so great and that can have technical difficulty and sorry technical reasons or it can be actually content reasons so what we are trying to do is we're trying to also broaden the the perspective a little bit I mean you said that like oh yeah we are we're in this metric right now we want to improve performance but actually has to create it and it's like well it has but it's not a bad thing because what actually happens is we opened up to more people all right that happens with search as well if you look at it from a more holistic perspective so if you're not just looking at technology but also at your content strategy yeah and what I would love to see happening is that if we bring this data to where people already are that people become more aware of it that maybe you should also look at your content and the way you present it and the way you make make sure that you're you're talking to the person on the other end who isn't trying to solve a purpose right yeah you're looking for something specific rather than necessarily a specific products like I need this task to be gone and done and dusted and how do I do this yeah so I think bringing the data to other people will help and I think what developers should look at is how they their content is performing in search engines as well so how how often do I show up in search results where in the search rules that's where I rank how many clicks do I get from search results if the content looks like this versus like that yeah so that's something that I hope to bring to more people as well oh yeah that makes sense so web components has been another big topic all right and we released an early version of a new one that I'm super excited about called virtual scroll and you know basically four years web developers have been saying like give me a UI tableview on the web that can perform and scales with the DOM and so we feel like we're going to be able to deliver that but then what's that going to mean in the SEO world is it Serge gonna be able to understand this if it's all virtual and like as we kind of push the bar here if performance and user experience well how do we make sure we don't leave behind I think what a lot of people outside of of our sphere don't realize is that we are working hand in hand it's not like SEO verse or search versus the browser teams we are trying to figure out how we can work with the web platform rather than against that we are using the web platform yeah we're basically running a browser if you wish yeah so we are actually looking into things like web components and virtual scroller specifically and I think it's a fantastic thing because we have literally just released documentation for lazy loading or infinite scroll whatever you want to call it basically you you know the drill like you have a page with a bazillion images or product listings the page way do you want to make sure that as the user goes through the content they come back how often did it happen to you that someone sends you a link I was like have you seen this product and then you go to the link and you see a lot of things but that product right in time and then they go oh yeah you have to scroll down for a few minutes right that's not good right web components are another thing that we are like really careful about and we have some guidance out there already and we expect to give them more guidance as well because if you build new web components from scratch they look like they are semantic but they are not necessarily semantic and strong sense right if it's a button that just happens to look like a button but really is a different and you lose a lot of the accessibility features and and so does search also loses a bunch of the semantics behind it so right now we are recommending putting the content the the meaty bits of your content like the actual well what it is about put that into the light on and then do use the shadow Dom and your components for presentation virtual scala is a specific interesting case where not only is presentation but also the way of the how the content gets loaded and the content behaves so we are working on figuring out how to make that consistent with search so that you don't have to worry about using these new technologies because we're really excited about them as well yeah that's great how do you feel about I keep longing for a world in the future where we add with web components these different semantics kind of higher-level semantics that search can understand but also assistants can understand yes we can get further into transactions and life we've got a notion of you know I really want to be able to go on to a commerce experience and so I want to buy a t-shirt for Martin and everything is brokered in a way that it knows your t-shirt size even if I don't you know what I mean and there's a person tagging all these words and then you get a great UI from it – because it's anodized but then so it she could use that an assistant could do full transactions if we do this if it was like that would be a way for assistants to kind of reach the long tail versus trying to go to everyone who's building a web site there's got a lot of work to do as it is and we're on to modernize this and picture performance and do this for discovery and also build this thing for the assistant that do you feel like will will ever get there I think we get there probably quicker than than we think because conveniently we have already pushed the idea of using structured data to expose like a bunch of information on your pages in a way that not only our crawlers can understand them but also anyone who basically persistance information and we are using schema.org for that so we use like a standardized format rather than just a private proprietary thing so I hope that gets more adoption and we see it both picked up by developers and by these assistant systems yeah because then you can use the web really powerfully because you have all the semantic data and that you can just pull together and then packaged in such an experience as you explained like the full end-to-end commerce for instance cool nice man thank you so much thank you thank you see develop print and SEO don't have to be contradicting each other also the the ice-t is pretty not pretty watery but it's it has the fantastic red color like you picked the exact correct

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